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Pistos

Raider

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The old thread can be found here.

Please at least skim it or in-page search it before posting your comments, suggestions, hatred. A lot of issues have already been discussed.

Pistos

Raider

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StephenHarper wrote:Seeing that there is no evidence for my purported in-game crime and charge of unfriendly kicking, this makes "the evidence provided (game 71722)" unwarrented and void, as said evidence does not actually exist.

As I said, the evidence was there at the time the case was reviewed. I agree that it is unfortunate that evidence disappears off weewar.com. As a result, I will look into ways of preserving evidence outside of weewar.com.

StephenHarper wrote:Or, does the WWPA base its judgment and decision to blacklist a player based entirely upon the arbitrary dislike of one player for another?

This would, of course, be silly. Thankfully, this is not the case. And there is no blacklist.

StephenHarper wrote:I strongly feel wronged and affronted by the WWPA and its management.I see at this point that you have two ways in which to deal with my disagreement: (1)take my name off the WWPA greylist, or (2) resubmit and post publicly "the case [that] was brought forth, [and] the evidence provided." This is no drumhead courtroom, but in the least you could show me some respect in lieu of your MCCarthiest adjudication.

I sympathize with your negative feelings. At the same time, I feel a duty to the members of the WWPA to maintain a consistent and fair system. The service is provided as a means to disseminate facts. If it is a demonstrable fact that someone has violated a point of the code of conduct, then they are placed on the greylist -- it is as simple as that. Removal of the evidence after the demonstration has no bearing on the actual fact of the violation committed. Erasing the security camera video footage of me stealing a pack of gum after the video was reviewed and made available for review for weeks does not change the fact that I stole the gum.

I think of greater importance here than what has gone on in the past is what you'd like to do at present, and into the future. Do you care about being on or being taken off the greylist because you are trying to assert that you do in fact abide by the WWPA code of conduct?

Lucian

Berserker

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It would be a good idea to take mandatory screenshot evidence in the future to avoid cases like this.

As for StephenHarper, if you're up for it, I'll take you on.

Pistos

Raider

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Unfortunately, victims are a bit defenseless at the moment, because the primary form of evidence for violations, namely, the replays, are temporarily out of service on the main server.

As a result, violations can only be confirmed by means of outright admission in the chat log.

I do hope the replays can return soon. I actually think that having the replay sometimes work is better than no replays at all. But I do understand that the devs want to quell the constant complaints about the replay. Perhaps a simple but informative error message for problem replays would do the trick?

StephenHarper

Trooper

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Sorry people, but you just shattered any confidence I may have had in the WWPA. As far as I am concerned, I'll not play any WWPA member until I'm taken of the greylist - nor will I promote the supposed equity or fairness purported by said gaming association. That's all I'm saying at this point concerning this matter.

P.S. If I change my user name, will this annul the Stephenharper greylisting - or will the list modify itself to my new name?

spadequack

Heavy Tank

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StephenHarper wrote:Sorry people, but you just shattered any confidence I may have had in the WWPA. As far as I am concerned, I'll not play any WWPA member until I'm taken of the greylist - nor will I promote the supposed equity or fairness purported by said gaming association. That's all I'm saying at this point concerning this matter.

P.S. If I change my user name, will this annul the Stephenharper greylisting - or will the list modify itself to my new name?


I agree that it would make the greylist system would be more fair and reliable if replays worked completely and there was a way to keep certain "evidence" games from being removed from weewar's databases. I know there is at least one person working on an external replayer (and I know Pistos once worked on an external game database thing with replayer), so a suggestion to Pistos - when a person is put on the greylist, save the html file, save the chat, and save the game history, which is I hope still accessible. It is work, but perhaps it will help prevent these kinds of issues where an accused realizes he/she is greylisted but does not have access to the evidence of the violation of which they are being accused. Alternatively, we could ask all accusers to maintain the game in their archive for a set time period (3 months?) which keeps the game from being deleted.

to the p.s.: changing your username will not change your game id - both your name (i don't think this gets updated after a name change) and your id are listed on the greylist.

edit: (i am not associated with the wwpa administration, but i am a member)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 04/06/2008 02:24:03

Pistos

Raider

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Clearly, the WWPA needs to archive the evidence provided for each approved case. I regret not doing this to date -- I didn't realize games disappear from weewar.com. From this day forward, I will archive evidence.

StephenHarper: Just as spadequack pointed out, the greylist operates primarily by player ID (which you cannot change). So changing your nick will not remove you from the greylist.

Lucian

Berserker

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StephenHarper wrote:Sorry people, but you just shattered any confidence I may have had in the WWPA. As far as I am concerned, I'll not play any WWPA member until I'm taken of the greylist - nor will I promote the supposed equity or fairness purported by said gaming association. That's all I'm saying at this point concerning this matter.


Seriously man. You're like the little kid who gets accused of cheating and flips the entire game board refusing to play with everyone. I offer you a fair game and a chance to prove that you're an honest player so that I can vouch for you, so you go and boycott everyone who joined the WWPA.

If one person added you to the "graylist" for no reason that doesn't mean that the rest of us are in the same ship. I joined the WWPA a few days ago because I liked what it stood for. I'm pretty sure most WWPA members did it for the same reasons.

Stop being such a whiny attention whore and just play the damn game. Add me to any gray or black list you like if it'll make you happy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/06/2008 04:30:31

bert

Staff

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I'd preferr to see the WWPA allow its members to post comments about others and do vote the players overall fairness. This way it would not rely on a single person and would allow "greylisted" people (read: those who have negative comments/votes) to have an easier way to clear their reputation.

Lucian

Berserker

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bert wrote:I'd preferr to see the WWPA allow its members to post comments about others and do vote the players overall fairness. This way it would not rely on a single person and would allow "greylisted" people (read: those who have negative comments/votes) to have an easier way to clear their reputation.


Well put. It would be nice to have that feature integrated into the game, but for the time being we could have a system of where everyone in WWPA who has played against the said individual could voice their opinion.

Pistos

Raider

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Although I am the only person judging the presented greylist cases, I am striving hard to be fair and objective; and, if I might humbly say so myself, I think I'm doing a decent job of that. Let it be known that I have actually rejected several cases to date for lack of sufficient evidence. Furthermore, when and if the judging gets too cumbersome, or if interested parties step forward, I am open to having a panel of judges rather than just me as an individual. However, at this time, the inflow of cases is small enough that I think it would just bog things down to have to wait for the judgements of an entire panel before accepting or dismissing a case.

Having said all that, I can implement a more general voting or commentary system to be used in parallel with the official greylist.

... Okay?

spadequack

Heavy Tank

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Sounds good to me =)

kersplat

Raider

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Pistos, I think you done a stand up job so far. I reviewed most of the current greylist cases before the replay was lost and agreed with every one I had reviewed.

I do think that a comment/rating system would be really helpful though, both as a tool in your reviews and to give the process a more objective approach. It also gives it more of an "open book" feel, allowing an easier redemption process. I can see how some people would feel trapped and slighted by the current system.

Pistos

Raider

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kersplat: Thanks for your comments and insight. I agree.

Lucian

Berserker

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I've got a few ideas floatin' around but I'll try and come up with something concrete and get back to you with the details.

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