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alianthus

Trooper

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1. Transport ship - no attack - hold about 6 land units
2. Transport plane - no attack - hold 1 or 2 land units
3. Aircraft carrier - no attack - hold 4 to 6 planes
4. Commando unit / special forces infantry - (heavy tank level attack, raider defense, movement not hindered by woods/mtn/swamp terrain types, maybe like 750 to build)

I am seemingly not alone on the transport/carrier idea - which the biggest roadblock / game change, will be changing the code to allow stacking units on a hex - not sure if it should be allowed on all hexes not containing a transport type unit - but stacking on bases would also be a interesting feature.

If stacking on transport units or bases comes to be - it should have a check box on game creation to toggle stacking on/off.



Warmaker

Berserker

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Planes wouldn't need to land to refuel. Is the aircraft carrier just for repair?

Darkbee

Berserker

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Warmaker wrote:Planes wouldn't need to land to refuel. Is the aircraft carrier just for repair?


It's a good point. Since planes currently have unlimited range, why bother stacking them in a Carrier that would probably only move 2 or 3 hexes at most per turn, when planes can travel 5+ hexes per turn.

The only use I can think of (aside from mobile repairs) is that the planes couldn't be attacked directly, which would be handy for bombers, although if the Carrier was destroyed then the planes would go with it.

I have played TBS's that have Carriers, but the planes typically had limited fuel range, so they made more sense. IMO, troop transports in general are a nice idea though. Paratroopers, that's what I'm talking about!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 02/04/2009 18:14:50

Casaubon

Tank

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Carriers mhm .. I'd make it repair only and regard it as kind of luxury item for the fleet. with bombers repairing inside your fleet you hold something strong against battleships in your hands. this would work even if the program wouldnt allow stacked or loaded units. air could repair in the hexes next to the carrier...

Darkbee I made the paratrooper today =) the problem is how will it behave as a paratrooper and how to translate its looks into wee design?
here is my suggestions: paras would move like normal troopers and when starting their move from an airfield, they moved 8 hexes with air zone of control applied. (8 hexes is the current move distance of jets and bombers). to give them another function I'd give them an attack of 8 against SOFT. this kind of makes them more experienced weesoldiers/commandos. to be distinguishable from trooper / hv trooper I equipped him with a big green backpack and added a parachute symbol. (see here)

Darkbee

Berserker

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Your site is wicked impressive Causabon...animations and everything! Nice!

Anyway, as far as the paratroopers were concerned, your idea is simpler (and far easier to implement in the current game) but I had in mind that they could be carried by troop transport aircraft (helis or planes). That way, they could get to any destination on a map, rather that only be allowed to move 8 hexes on their initial turn. Once on the ground they could behave exactly like regular troopers (maybe slightly harder).

This whole notion of being able to transport things, be it ground units, air units, ammunition, or whatever, really drastically alters the game play and I know that some people are heavily against this. Perhaps your half-way measure might convince people otherwise.

madmike

Raider

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For my new unit Ideas. I was having trouble figuring out how paratroopers would behave without the use of a "Transport" unit, and making the usage overcomplicated for weewar. So I decided to scratch the idea and go with JumpTroopers/JetPack Troopers. They can are basically troopers without movement restrictions including having ZOC like an air unit. The only restriction was that they could not end their move on a water tile. As for attack they could either do more damage or have more defense but not both. This is what I could not decide on.

Jump Trooper
Move: 4
Cost: 150 or 200
Capture: Yes
No terrain hindrance
ZOC: air type
Can be built at airfields


P.S. I have a list of 6 new units somewhere.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 03/04/2009 15:23:02

Warmaker

Berserker

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Jetpack troopers? Can I get laserbeam artillery units next?

I think simplicity is where you get shot down, Madmike. I applaud the effort, though.

Casaubon

Tank

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what about giving paratroopers 3 kinds of move:
  • regular move = 3 hexes (same as trooper)
  • drop move = 8 hexes with air zone of control when starting from your airfield
  • transfer move = from your airfield to another of your airfields (or neutral) on the map


  • + set of = movement coverage of big parts of map. (see the animation here.)

    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 07/04/2009 20:38:12

    ShadowPanther

    Tank

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    Casaubon wrote:Wow Madmike this freak units are ehm WEIRD INDEED, I totally agree with you! They wouldnt even fit on a single terrain hex in game probably. Ultrabomber LOL, did you get this stuff back in good ol´tangler days?
    Lucian you brought out the situation on sea with the overpowerd destroyer very well, I applaud you. The destroyer is too powerfull, I repeat there should be 2 ships doing the job it does alone and thats more than just filling a hole.

    Lucian wrote:Another useful ship would be a carrier, which had slow movement and decent short ranged attack, but good defense and was able to repair air units.

    Its in my pipe allready. Here we go:
    I even would make it almost defenseless so speedboats would be upgraded if they could harm an unprotected carrier.

    I read somewhere and can´t recall exactly where it was, that there would be some technical difficutlies to realize transport units. Don´t know if its true.. but if units can´t be positioned on top of other units, I´d suggest to make air repairable on adjacent hexes next to the carrier.

    I've been to your site, and I think that planes should not be able to repair right after they land on the carrier. They should wait one turn like planes that move to an airfield. They can't repair instantly, so why can planes on a carrier do that?


    Casaubon wrote:what about giving paratroopers 3 kinds of move:
  • regular move = 3 hexes (same as trooper)
  • drop move = 8 hexes with air zone of control when starting from your airfield
  • transfer move = from your airfield to another of your airfields (or neutral) on the map


  • + set of = movement coverage of big parts of map. (see the animation here.)

    Hmm... I don't like the transfer move, and drop move is waaay too far. Maybe 6 hexes? But the air ZOC is a good idea.

    alianthus wrote:1. Transport ship - no attack - hold about 6 land units
    2. Transport plane - no attack - hold 1 or 2 land units
    3. Aircraft carrier - no attack - hold 4 to 6 planes
    4. Commando unit / special forces infantry - (heavy tank level attack, raider defense, movement not hindered by woods/mtn/swamp terrain types, maybe like 750 to build)

    I am seemingly not alone on the transport/carrier idea - which the biggest roadblock / game change, will be changing the code to allow stacking units on a hex - not sure if it should be allowed on all hexes not containing a transport type unit - but stacking on bases would also be a interesting feature.

    If stacking on transport units or bases comes to be - it should have a check box on game creation to toggle stacking on/off.

    Great ideas No stacking though, only for transports...


    madmike wrote:Not really true cas. I for one like new things, but things with in a certain scope. The cruiser is good idea. But things like the following image are just ... lets say... out of scope and i dont agree with them. lol




    -mm

    uh huh... Those are just pictures from one unit grafted onto another... And they're kinda rigged looking to me. Like, a bomber can already kill almost everything, including anti air. But a super bomber?
    A fast moving tank that does that much damage. Raiders are weak for a reason. They're supposed to be raiders!
    Heavy hover tank? No way. At best, a hover tank. And that would cost probably somewhere near 600 credits. Built only at seaport, but has the movement of a normal hover.
    And destroyers are what your AA gunship is's supposed to be. So tell people to up the destroyer instead.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 17/04/2009 00:30:21

    Lucian

    Berserker

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    ShadowPanther wrote:I've been to your site, and I think that planes should not be able to repair right after they land on the carrier. They should wait one turn like planes that move to an airfield. They can't repair instantly, so why can planes on a carrier do that?


    Because a carrier costs a shitload and the whole purpose behind one is to have your air units operational in a short amount of time.

    I do agree with SP about the transfer move. Looks far too much like teleportation.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 18/04/2009 10:03:04

    Casaubon

    Tank

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    @ drop move for paratroopers: well its always a matter of the map size what movement range appears long or short. on a 10 x 10 hexes map 8 hexes for a drop-move from an airfield would be very much, on a 30 x 30 hexes map 8 or even 6 hexes drop-move from your airfield would look quite useless (you could walk the same distance in 2 turns). speaking in maps, on sterlings europe your paras built in england could not even land in germany or spain with 6 hexes range only... please bear in mind that the front where you would need your paras to land behind the enemy tanks to attack enemy artillery is not always that near to your airfield.

    @ transfer move for paratroopers:
    yes the "transfer move" currently is kind of teleporting, I understand the criticism about that. maybe there could be a range limit also; what about a transfer move to airfields that are within like 20 hexes for example?

    please keep in mind that with the current suggestions the paratroopers would need 1 turn to be built in a base. the second turn to walk onto your airfield (cannot be built there. during this second turn your airfield would be blocked by the para and no planes could be build or landed for repairs also!)). not until the third turn they could be deployed. if you have only 1 airfield its only 1 para landing behind enemy lines, which is not a strong force but more a distraction that your enemy can decimate with 2 troopers or a raider unit. but if you have several airfields with paras ready, it would be a cool ride of the valkyries.

    ShadowPanther

    Tank

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    I say paras should be built in airfields, launch from airfields, and then land as units slightly stronger than troopers but weaker than heavy troopers. If paratroopers come in, many maps will be reinvented for the use/nonuse of them. So it doesn't matter about compatibility with current maps.

    fonus

    Heavy Trooper

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    I'd like to drop a suggestion for the paratrooper function by allowing non heavy non hover units to be airdropped by air fleets.I think allowing a 'organic transport' option would be nice. You could purchase 'levels' in air transport, which would allow non-heavy non-hover units which touch a airstrip to move a additional 8 hexes subject to ZOC, and another 1 subject to ZOC, then attack once on the ground.

    Heres my example, I spend a lot of money investing in a infrastructure of airfleets, 3 of them to be exact. I'm losing ground and decide to drop units behind enemy lines so my foes units attack the diversion instead of my main line. I move a infantry onto a airstrip. A menu comes up with the stay/undo/newly scripted 'air drop' option. When air drop is clicked, the a availible air transport is reduced by one. The new movement radius comes up. I click in the gap in my enemies lines and move the infantry into the gap, Then I drop it into a free hex on the right, behind lines. I move a raider to the airstrip and click air drop again. The raider is a large units and takes my remaining two slots. I move it into the gap, the drop it to the left. If I had airdropped my tank it would have taken 3 air transport points. As soon as units are dropped they can attack, but cannot move. At the beggining of each turn airfleets replenish to their purchased level.

    I also think it would be interesting to allow unused air fleets to fly in supplies at the end of each round. Like 75-100 credits per airfleet, or a option in map editing to allow a value to be entered.

    ShadowPanther

    Tank

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    No for the extra credits... People would amass airfleets? Okay, maybe okay, but it would have to be tweaked. Like 25% of the base earning. And I don't like how airdrops are "stored". They should be a visible air unit.

    Otherwise, units can't attack after being dropped. Or maybe you would have a second unit called combat-airdrop, which lets you drop and move and attack all in one turn. But the basic airdrop should not be able to attack after dropping. That's really cheap. What if you drop like 3 berzerkers right behind the DFAs of the enemy? At least three DFAs would be rendered useless, and the Berzerkers would still be at 10 health and a big threat.

    fonus

    Heavy Trooper

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    I see %25 being okay. You never know when that will let you buy a extra trooper. And investing 3k credits for a 75 a turn increase for a free trooper around is hardly worth it... %25 works.

    I mean non heavy and non-hover units. Infantry, raiders, light artillery, aa, tank. I think a airlife cost of 1/2/2/3/3 would work, which is cost proportionate. Artillery couldn't fire because it has moved.

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