|18/09/2013 02:40:46 Here ye be Monsters|
Trying to add an image. Don't know how apparently. Help would be good. haha
This map is for McMonster.
Map Concept: Mcmonster likes Jovanas (so do a lot of people). I took it and changed several things about the map.
1) You can still attack counter clockwise to grab opponent bases. But the method to do this is different than before because the sea and land have changed. It is now both easier and more difficult to grab opponent bases using this method, which is to say it is just different.
2) The land path is wider and less easily patrolled by marauding destroyers and battleships. This enhances the method of being able to attack by land to win. The arrangement of the opponent bases is also set to encourage the land based attack by keeping support bases near the back of the island on each side.
3) The ability to attack in the clockwise direction is enhanced and there is the possibility of combining with the land based attack as well as pushing the clockwise attack to the back separate island.
4) There is a possibility of a sequence attack from red to blue in the south to deny blue a base. Blue should try hard to not let that happen.
There are more bases = happy people because there is more income and you can make more big toys to play with. haha
There are double harbors in the north and in the south for both sides. This is similar to what I did with the Aruba map to extend it backwards. The second harbor allows for new styles of attack, but it also gives a chance to recover from a bad attack. A player can also delay defending one naval front to allow for an extended attack somewhere else.
There are 3 airfields per side and none of them is very threatened by naval maneuvers. They are placed to make a good first move attack on the inlet sea zones, which is an additional deterrent for having battleships wander into the middle, which also encourages the land based attack.
Extra income makes it easier to recover.
Extra harbors make it easier to recover.
A good strong naval attack is probably most often signaled by a double destroyer build per turn and there is income to build a BB and a destroyer, which can counter double destroyer builds well enough. So the extra time delay to make the naval attack will give good players a chance to plan ahead.
Any map can be won by a player of sufficiently higher skill than the other player, think zapp. But what about playing against players of equal skill? This map has a defensive 'weakness' that creates an opportunity for victory. The northwest most blue base and southeast most red base can't be reliably protected by dfa as they could be on GD's Jovana map. Attack counter clockwise with a good enough naval + air attack and the opponent can have a hard time keeping the base free.
You want subtle? I can give you subtle. haha
The 2 sides are not mirror images of each other. There is a single base that is not in the same spot on both sides of the map. This difference gives red an advantage to activate bases faster and/or move into attack position faster.
With perfect play, blue decides how big this advantage is for red and what kind of difference results from the difference in base layout. If blue doesn't plant on turn 1 and moves forward to be able to activate the forward harbor earlier, then blue will be giving red a better income advantage. If blue does plant on turn 1 which delays the forward harbor activation, then red can take or have the earlier move to the counter clockwise naval attack on the defensive 'weakness' or red can take or have the earlier move to the land based attack, or both. If blue captures on turn 1 with the southern most infantry, this is where the potential sequence move for red to deny blue a base comes from.
Which base is not the same on both sides:
Blue's southern most starting infantry is just above the blue base. Red's northern most starting infantry is 3 hexes west of the corresponding red base.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 18/09/2013 03:21:42
|19/09/2013 20:52:57 Re:Here ye be Monsters|
Going to test it out.
Both planted first move
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 25/09/2013 06:29:00
|24/09/2013 06:05:05 Re:Here ye be Monsters|
Hope you won't mind me taking notes on how this game plays out.
(also better for me and others to learn from whatever mistakes I make)
Game vs the MapMaker himself:
Both sides decided to plant first turn.
Both sides engage in rapid expansion
Blue makes 2 destroyers and 2 raiders.
Both sides make DFAs on the opponent's "navally powerful side" (south for red, north for blue).
Red creates several heavy infantry and raiders.
Red amasses DFAs on blue's powerful side.
Red amasses a seriously scary number of DFAs. Neither side has actually fired a shot at each other.
Blue goes out for dinner, Red goes out for dancing
The sides are being defined and a noticeable no-man's land is formed. Blue has more destroyers, but red has more DFAs and infantry
Using sneaky submarine attacks combined with battleship intimidation tactics, red was able to pick off several of blue's destroyers and damage several more. Land army wise, both sides are probably starting to approach critical mass
Ah, after this point, it's just become a massive pushing battle,
This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 30/09/2013 06:30:46
|28/09/2013 20:47:30 Re:Here ye be Monsters|
Both sides went for quick base capture.
Blue captured the north harbor early and sent destroyers to harass red.
The skirmish that resulted ended with roughly equal losses. Red used 3 and then 5 DFA to delay blue while capturing the corner. Blue tried to blockade a red battleship in the harbor.
The end of the early game saw a 2-3 turn battle in the middle with red largely giving ground to blue's roughly 10 dfa. This was followed by another battle a couple turns later.
As of the beginning of turn 24:
The north sea zone is Blue: 2 BB, 4 DD, 1 speedboat. And Red: 11 DD, 2 subs, 5 speedboats. Blue has a few artillery supporting the blue side of the north sea zone. This side of the battle has not reached a steady state, a stalemate state, a stare each other down kind of posturing.
The land area is in a battle and red just counter attacked a blue invasion and assault. Blue has 7 dfa, at least 1 dd, and a couple aircraft supporting the effort that the ground troops are making. Red has 4 DFA (2 dmged) and several aircraft supporting the ground troops but no naval support.
The south sea zone is at a steady state, stalemate state, a stare each other down kind of posturing. Blue has: 3 BB, 11 DD, 5 speedboats vs Red's 3 BB, 12 DD, 3 subs, 9 speedboats.
|30/09/2013 06:40:49 Re:Here ye be Monsters|
After playing about 5 games on this map, I feel that Blue still has a slight advantage over Red.
Most of my games have essentially boiled down to something like this...
(this is a game with a random person, not MapMaker. That match is tough)
I'm not really sure what balance changes to suggest, but just posting my experiences so far.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 30/09/2013 20:27:28
|08/10/2013 00:28:44 Re:Here ye be Monsters|
- Blue can usually determine some or most of the flow of a game. Example: In the Diplomacy 2.x maps at the megacity, blue can build a wall vs red or can plant a capturing unit for the opening move. In sports terms it is playing defense or offense.
- Players learn their strategies partially from their defeats. A player who gets beaten tends to remember why he/she lost.
- Not all players can correctly pick out the reason why he/she lost.
- Players don't learn all available strategies. (No worries)
1) Some don't learn and so they make the same exploitable mistakes and their opponents never have to come up with a better tactic or strategy.
2) Some keep playing the same people. This can mean that they learn enough to have options and have fun, but still don't learn all available strategies.
3) Some have style preferences that prevent them from using one or more strategies.
4) Some players don't 'read' the map to determine what 'can' work and can't work before a first game is played. This is not reading the description. This is reviewing the arrangement of hexes and placement of facilities.
Look at the monster map:
- Players learn from others. Opponents who don't understand a map prior to playing it are usually vulnerable to fast attacks no matter their color (blue or red).
- Either side CAN use the all out attack.
- Only red can potentially deny the other player a base.
- It has a lot of income. (Intentional to promote having more big toys AND using them = offense / attacking style encouraged.)
- Blue is more likely to grab a harbor or airfield before red. (This is intentional since it promotes offense / attacking which turns into a hot war. Weewar hot wars are more fun and exciting.)
- Dominance of position can sometimes trump an early income advantage (all out base capturing is probably not the best strategy on the monster map. This also promotes the hot war.)
When blue goes all out on the monster map then red 'learns' the blue strategy of going all out. When red switches and plays as blue, they use that strategy. Soon most players know the blue all out strategy and 'fear' being red because they think the blue all out strategy is strong. It doesn't mean it is the best strategy or the ultimate winning strategy. And red can also use the all out strategy. Fear can lead to an early victory but the red player would have to not know the map or how to defeat blue's advances.
If red is innovative or elusive, then red can come up with many counter strategies.
Most times a new map is deemed to have a color (blue) advantage and then someone figures out a counter strategy and it is deemed to have a new color (red) advantage. This keeps going and people are absolutely certain their designation is the correct one... until someone beats that ultimate strategy.
Jovanas is a stalemate map because of the defense that can be set up to prevent the loss of a base. This is why a lot of the games take so long to play. Eventually the board fills up and / or people lose patience.
The Monster map is also a stalemate map because you can set up a defense to prevent the loss of a base. However it is easier to beat the Monster map stalemate than it is to beat the Jovanas map stalemate. Because of this, the Monster map should take less time to play. However the Monster map is larger and even though it has more income, it takes longer to fill up the board.
The map is also slanted toward offense more than defense (Giving GD an advantage haha). Take it all into account and overall most games will end more quickly than Jovanas games.
|19/10/2013 06:28:39 Re:Here ye be Monsters|
Finally lost the game against MapMaker. Feeling just a little bummed, but it was a very informative game (for me at least). Now that I have seen how you decisively destroy people on this map, I have begun modifying my gameplay on other games to achieve a similar situation. Thanks for the good game!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 19/10/2013 06:29:26