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RockyDog

Berserker

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I'm sorry you disagree with our vote. I doubt any explanation I would give would actually sway your view however since you've already stated what you feel is a solid case 2-1 against advancing Kain7.

We have not posted the details behind any of the rulings thus far. I don't feel that doing so now would help in any way either. If you don't trust the judges to make unbiased decisions then there is no point to having a panel of judges.

I stand with my earlier suggestion - be one of the judges if you want to see how things go. Don't flame the volunteers for making choices you don't agree with.

Rosenstern_and_Guildencrantz

Heavy Trooper

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RD. I'm not trying to flame the volunteers for making bad decision. I'm trying to understand HOW they made their decision. And no, I can certainly be persuaded that Kain was rightfully chosen. I was merely asking if the reasons I stated were ones considered by the judges. Perhaps there are other that I didn't mention that would help bring some clarity. You try to act all morally sound but if your decision was unbiased and fair then why is it so hard to state publicly?

RockyDog

Berserker

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I'm not 'trying to act morally sound'. I'm repeating the same mantra. The judges have not posted our decision process publicly thus far, and I am not in favor of doing so now. This is not a case of attempting to get popular opinion to agree that we made a sound decision.

There are three of us. We discussed and voted. We do our best to remain unbiased and make what we feel are sound decisions. Maybe Tyger or DB are willing to discuss the rationale in public, I'm not.

Again, my apologies that you disagree with the result. I do suggest that you, or anyone who feels we aren't doing a good job in this tournament, should take the opportunity to run such an event themselves. I know I will not be doing so in the future, the position will be open. I believe folks were clamoring for another Weecup to be run later this summer. The opportunity is there.

Darkbee

Berserker

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No doubt if we'd have voted in the favor of R&G then Kain would have been calling us Satan's own spawn. Someone is going to be unhappy whichever way we go. So that leads us to the situation in which I guess the crux of the problem is the time limit and "what's the rush"? There's no rush per se, but if there's absolutely no limit at all, then 99.9% of the community will have zero interest in a tournament that will most likely last at least 12 months. Furthermore, it would seem a little odd to me to start one annual tournament when the one from the previous year hasn't even finished. Should we just skip years, or maybe go with a World Cup, every four years style?

I get that we don't want the tournament to become a string of arbitrated results, handed out by some random selection of judges, but seriously it's a tournament! You're either in to play and win, or don't play. Would it be acceptable in any other game tournament for people just to show up when they felt like it? If you want a casual tournament then play a casual tournament. If you want to be "the best at Weewar" then show up and play. Where are the "rules are the rules" guys when you need 'em?

Honestly, I can't see there being a tournament next year because nobody will have the balls big enough to step up and run it. RockyDog, I salute your big balls and thank you for your service to the Weewar community.

Tygerdave

Heavy Tank

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I took charge of the tournament last year and let it run as it would and it was a complete joke. The whole site was in shambles and I barely cared enough to keep my own games going. No one cared what happened by the time it was over.

We're trying to do a little better this year and that includes me not playing because I knew I wouldn't be able to take enough turns to finish my rounds in a timely fashion. I think we were pretty clear about the timeline as we started and I respected that and did not play.

In this game there was no effort made (that I could see) to even coordinate schedules and power through a few turns until after the time limit was passed and multiple requests to make progress were made. I would have rather not advanced either player from the point of view of the tournament. You both seem like fine players and I'm sure you're nice guys with better things to do than play a game all day and I don't fault you for that AT ALL on a personal level so +100 for having your priorities straight but -1 for making a commitment, letting it slip, and then complaining about the volunteer judges decisions both during and after the game.

beetstreet

Heavy Trooper

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as a suggestion to the next tournament's judges: when a match has gone over time maybe post a warning that if x-number rounds are not completed in the next x-number days, the judges will determine who advances. it seems the level of surprise is a huge factor in the frustration. those friendly reminders probably weren't stern enough for the competitors.

Rosenstern_and_Guildencrantz

Heavy Trooper

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beetstreet wrote:as a suggestion to the next tournament's judges: when a match has gone over time maybe post a warning that if x-number rounds are not completed in the next x-number days, the judges will determine who advances. it seems the level of surprise is a huge factor in the frustration. those friendly reminders probably weren't stern enough for the competitors.


well said. It was certainly the surprise factor that got me. I thought we still had a little time left. A more stern warning would have been nice. Something to the extent of: "three days from now a victor will be decided by the judges if this game is still running".

Sorry for getting so heated yesterday. I guess I actually cared about the tournament. That was my mistake. The fun is this thing has been killed for me.

I'm over it now.

kain7

Heavy Trooper

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warnings.. time limits.. jesus, there was no need for that.

Sure, the first 3 round must be finished in 2 weeks, cause the winners are clear, but in this actual case it as an fight from 2 equal players. No need to finished it fast. We play the weewar champion out...

i think that at the point, that we have 8 final players, we have to play an all vs all round-tournament.

beetstreet

Heavy Trooper

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kain, from the chats in your game, it didn't look like either of you felt any urgency. i read where your priorities were, and i get that.

at at the same time, the organizers want to move the tournament along for whatever reasons they have. those weewarriors made a commitment to running the event, and i think they had the impression this would be done already based on two week rounds. i bet they have other priorities too that they would like to pay some attention to.

in addition to my suggestion for over time games the next group of judges might request 4 rounds be played in the next 3 days, then 5 rounds in the next 3 days, then 6,... of course that's considering a time limit is set.

i don't envy the decision they took, and i appreciate the time they're putting in to keep this community excited. but i'm sure the judges would like to move with their lives.

Rosenstern_and_Guildencrantz

Heavy Trooper

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Darkbee wrote:No doubt if we'd have voted in the favor of R&G then Kain would have been calling us Satan's own spawn.


I wasnt calling you satan's spawn DB. haha. nice one though. I appreciate your help in running the event. I just didn't understand how you made your assessment.

Darkbee wrote:
I get that we don't want the tournament to become a string of arbitrated results, handed out by some random selection of judges, but seriously it's a tournament! You're either in to play and win, or don't play. Would it be acceptable in any other game tournament for people just to show up when they felt like it? If you want a casual tournament then play a casual tournament.


I realize this was a more professional tournament. And no, I wasnt looking for a casual tournament. What I don't think you realized was that I WAS taking this seriously. I WAS showing up to play. I took great concern to make sure I took every move within the allotted time for nearly three months and after three months of being very diligent about it, I ran into a conflict. I can't imagine many people who arent going to run into a conflict for a few days when they register for a tournament that lasts over three months. Because of that conflict I made sure I gave proper notice to my opponent. I enjoyed the professionalism involved with this tournament. I just feel like more leniency was given to players in the more arbitrary early rounds than was given to me in the more demanding later stage of this tournament.

Tygerdave wrote:In this game there was no effort made (that I could see) to even coordinate schedules and power through a few turns until after the time limit was passed and multiple requests to make progress were made. I would have rather not advanced either player from the point of view of the tournament. You both seem like fine players and I'm sure you're nice guys with better things to do than play a game all day and I don't fault you for that AT ALL on a personal level so +100 for having your priorities straight but -1 for making a commitment, letting it slip, and then complaining about the volunteer judges decisions both during and after the game.


Kain informed me before the tournament round began that he was on vacation until the 5th of July (or somewhere around there). I'm not sure if the judges were aware of this but I didnt feel a need to berate him in the chat or send him email reminders. I just waited patiently. And when he did come back to play it was typically once a day he could make his moves. I did at one point within the game try to suggest we meet during the weekend (since we both work during the week and he is 8 hours ahead of me in germany) and bang out some turns and he told me he would be unavailable. Tygerdave, you say "-1 for making a commitment and letting it slip". You're right I committed to this, and perhaps I let it slip to a small extent. But three months ago was when I committed to this and I've stayed on top of it 100% until this last week when I had a minor complication with my new job. At the time of my committment I had no knowledge of my job transition. And if nobody in this tournamnt should of registered due to a possible three day complication Three months down the road, then I doubt there would have been a tournament at all.

All I'm saying is that we got down to the final 8. This was the part of the tournament I was most looking forward to. It was starting to get juicy and it was put to a screeching halt. It was just very frustrating. A few more days would have made for a better assessment of our game.

I thank everyone involved for their work in puting it together. I understand it's hard to please everyone.

RockyDog

Berserker

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Tygerdave wrote:I took charge of the tournament last year and let it run as it would and it was a complete joke. The whole site was in shambles and I barely cared enough to keep my own games going. No one cared what happened by the time it was over.


Just for clarification - Tyger was the sole judge last year. I did the grunt work running the event. Thus why we're both claiming we ran the tournament. http://weewar.com/forum/posts/list/1222.page



@beetstreet - they were given notices about the impending time limit.

@R&G - I'm sorry you felt we didn't treat you properly.

@those asking for another format: I fully agree - there are many formats. this particular tournament didn't use those other ones, but they are valid formats. someone should run a round robin event.

@GD - you wuss - join the fray and drop your F-bombs. I don't think you've been drinking enough if you can stay out of this one. I think our next ruling will be against you no matter whose game it is! (just kidding of course).

RockyDog

Berserker

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General_Death wrote:Sorry guys, since Jeye hadn't accepted yet, I decided to change my beginning move. Here's the new game:

http://www.weewar.com/game/318263



second time in the tournament I say - "poor form old chap. Poor form". Should have asked Jeye if that was ok before doing it. Sportsmanship and all. I'm sure he'd have said yes, but self declaring a do-over is poor form.

p.s. if this doesn't get you to drop a few profanities then I KNOW you're too sober.

jeye

Tank

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Hi,

first, no problem that GD started a new game. However I am curious what moves GD did that he decided to restart.


I am happy that the judges organize the tournament and it is an interesting tournament so far.

However I think the jugdes decision to have kain7 advance over R&G was not the best. I would have preferred it the judges would have waited for the game to finish. I do not see any problem delaying this tournament and hope that there will be no more players advancing in this tournament.

nhanvnpr

Trooper

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infocharlie wrote:I'm game!.....Thanks RD

Thanhs alot RD, I love game very much.

General_Death

Tank

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Like what the Fuck RD?.. lol

That was funny, and true, sorry jeye, should've checked with you first And I didn't want the trooper, I wanted a hover instead .. wanted to upgrade.

I think I agree with Beetstreet, since these guys are doing this out of their own time (and for which I am extremely thankful), they make the rules and can't keep the tourney going forever. The decision is a tough one either way, but from that perspective I have to support whatever decisions the judges and RD make. R&G is in a tough spot and I think the surprise made it all the more painful for him. It looks like he's taking out his frustrations on Kain7 though.. lol.. Jesus

Anyhow, I think I may be a few days too late, I need to keep up with my drinking RD, I'm getting soft.. lol

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