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hugobrain

Raider

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We got some unrated BWY vs PGR games going, but Sico and I are always ready for rated games!


PS well done in http://weewar.com/game/110264!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 15/01/2009 18:41:28

Riip

Heavy Trooper

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Count me in as well

hugobrain

Raider

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2 games BWY vs PGR:
http://weewar.com/game/133291
http://weewar.com/game/133168

hugobrain

Raider

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http://weewar.com/game/133467
http://weewar.com/game/133168
http://weewar.com/game/133291

3 games being played BWY vs PGR , 3 different outcomes...
Not a perfect set-up, but better than the old fashioned BPR vs GWY

Juffe

Raider

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hugobrain wrote:
3 games being played BWY vs PGR , 3 different outcomes...
Not a perfect set-up, but better than the old fashioned BPR vs GWY


With two games' experience my view is that PGR are ultimately at some disadvantage, but these teams do provide for some interesting variation and possibilities.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/02/2009 16:36:49

hugobrain

Raider

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I'm still not convinced... True, Purple is harder to land ashore, and Green is pressed on 3 sides, but at least red is doing fine.
As to BWY - Blue cannot divide itself very well vs Purple and Green, White is still pressed nastily, and Yellow does not cut into red like butter...
Nice to finally see some Yellow-Green action!
We need to try one more time
I so want to play Red - the only colour I haven't tried yet.

Hal2000

Raider

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I agree the PGR are at a disadvantage.

For example:

http://weewar.com/game/133168

In this game White moves to take the two N bases from Red at 23,0 & 25,0 which is difficult if not impossible to stop. Plus White put a lot of pressure against the eastern (red) front. Then white setup a western front to keep Purple in his place. Finally you either fight it out with purple and/or head south against green. The extra 6 (ish) bases is more than enough to eventually win. White can hold the line with Red pretty easily since Red has Yellow attacking. White can keep Purple from taking any Europe bases with some artillery and a bunch of Inf. White still has the income to reinforce the Eastern/Southern fronts and still put as much money as Purple has into a fleet. Unless PGR make an early move to even up the bases the game is over. Time is on BWY side. With these teams it is BWY game to lose. PGR has to hope BWY makes a mistake.

A different outcome on this game:
http://weewar.com/game/133291
This game is going in favor of PGR because of two key facts. 1) White did not move to take 23,0 & 25,0 to prevent Red from having a Northern Fleet and white failed to establish a strong Eastern front. 2) Blue did not put a fleet into action against Green. Instead both White and Blue went West/North to attack Purple in hopes of crushing him before Green and Red could make Blue and White pay. This hasn't happened. Purple has been able to hold out and even gain some ground and now both Red and Green are taking bases from White and Blue.

If BWY always does the following, I bet they win most of the time.
White moves East and takes 23,0 & 25,0 then sets up a strong Eastern front to keep Red in place. White puts a holding force in place in Europe to keep Purple from taking ground.
Blue moves East and fights Green. Blue puts a holding force in Europe to keep Purple in place.

If these fronts are established and secured the total base count by team will be +4 to +6 bases for team BWY. That extra income (and no huge mistakes) will lead to red being killed by white/yellow as he attempts to fight a two war front with income equal too or less than 1 or both of his enemies.
Green has a fair chance to make a move on Blue, but if Blue holds out long enough his extra income will eventually kill Green. Plus Yellow can easily throw a destroyer or 2 towards green keeping him from advancing on Blue.
White can maintain his Eastern front to keep Red in place and then start pumping out the ships to attack Purple.

As with any game individual skill always comes into play, but the opening moves are key to this map.

hugobrain

Raider

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Some solution could be...
- Purple could be boosted simply by starting up with a HC and 1 trooper in England, and 1 trooper in Ireland. This would allow him to become bigger faster, and safely capture a city on the mainland.
- Red could start with a HC (replace 1 trooper with 1 HC) to quickly move south or east and have an advanced base.
- 36,0 should be a city.
- 35,12 should be a red port. 34,15 should be changed to clear.
- 20,16 or 20,17 should be a city.
- The chain of mountain from 20,14 to 21,17 should have at least 1 opening to allow non-troopers to move in.

CaptainCupCake

Tank

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Funny how those two games have flipped - a few turns ago the cries were reversed... the purple gambit initially looked promising but fell flat on it's face in the end The other game I thought we were done for, but things are picking up...

It seems like the analysis is sound, but there are a lot of permutations for a few games to cover.

Hal2000

Raider

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CaptainCupcake wrote:Funny how those two games have flipped - a few turns ago the cries were reversed... the purple gambit initially looked promising but fell flat on it's face in the end The other game I thought we were done for, but things are picking up...

It seems like the analysis is sound, but there are a lot of permutations for a few games to cover.



The bottom line is BWY has a much wider margin of error in their opening moves in which they still come out on top with the most bases (as a team). PGR need to have a pretty flawless set of opening moves and have BWY make some mistakes to allow them to steal a couple of bases to even out the base count. I don't think the map requires a lot of tweaking to be fair, but it certainly needs a little.

CaptainCupCake

Tank

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I'm sure you're right. I've only played a couple of games, both as blue. My experience is limited.

hugobrain

Raider

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I'm still not convinced of what is what with the BWY vs PGR fight.

Anyone up for another battle? Rated, of course!



I'd invite, but man, I want to try Red! At least once in mine life!

Juffe

Raider

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I'd like to try those teams once more if I'm purple (preferably with Riipperi as green, if he's in)

Riip

Heavy Trooper

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I'm in, and happy to play as green. I've not played in that position much

hugobrain

Raider

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Riipperi, matt538 and Juffe, we will reinvite you for a rematch, that'd be Sicro Typhooooon and Hugobrain. We'll be playing BRP, you play WGY. That will be only fair since BRP is a tad harder to win. And matt538, you'll be able to have your revenge at last as a non-red.

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